The mobile phone premium rate industry stopped stealing from my phone way back in 2009. Sadly though, they've now turned their attentions to my sister's.
Whereas I had to deal with mobile billing megacorp mBlox, this time we've got a Cellfish bunch doing the looting. A rather apt name for such a company, doing the things that it does.
Or rather, it's Cellfish Europe's KKO Mobile/MyDoo (their fully owned) offshoot which specialises in providing shit no one wants and no one's asked for. Here's a bit of backgrounder of this company on The Scream's forum: KKO/MyDoo mobile charges on the 3 Network
So, my sister received a text last month whilst with me (shown above)
It was from 'Payforit' and it thanked her for subscribing to KKO Mobile for £4.50 per week. She showed me the text and I advised her to keep it, ignore it, but keep an eye on her bill. I know PhonepayPlus (the industry regulator, more on that in a moment) tells victims to text 'STOP' but, from personal experience, I know that that doesn't work (I was scammed by the same company - via mBlox - a second time despite doing what I was told).
Fast forward to last month and she was indeed billed £18 by KKO. T-Mobile, the network she's with, told her that her issue was with KKO. No surprise there! As my sister's a very busy woman she's unlikely to bother PhonepayPlus whom, I've advised her, are about as useful as a chocolate fire extinguisher. Instead, I've been dealing - on her behalf - with KKO.
It has been a long, drawn out, process via the medium of email - as I sure as hell wasn't going to be adding to their bottom line by calling the premium rate number they, and regulator, advertise to disgruntled "customers".
I'll cut to the chase by saying KKO Mobile are insistent someone in possession of my sister's phone absolutely, positively, had to have signed her up to the incredibly bad value for money service the company provides. And my sister absolutely, positively, insists this didn't happen.
Of course they can't offer any proof anyone using her handset subscribed - but the fact that it's using the payment mechanism of Payforit, means there can't possibly be any other answer. Yes, Payforit appears to be completely infallible (it's not, by the way - the regulator is currently looking into it). Which is convenient for the likes of Cellfish, and the four MNOs (that's Mobile Network Operators, aka Three UK, Everything Everywhere, O2 and Vodafone) who own Payforit and get to keep a nice share of the revenues of each payment made with it.
Despite all this, the ever so kind people at KKO are willing to fully refund my sister's £18 as 'an exceptional gesture of goodwill'. Which begs the question: If KKO are so sure they've done nothing wrong, why are they willing to refund so easily?
As of today, the 29th May 2013, my sister has yet to receive the promised refund.
PhonepayPlus is the regulator and cheerleader of the UK's premium rate industry. When my 3 Mobile account was pillaged by mBlox (a company regularly fined, albeit paltry sums) its then CEO, Andrew Bud, just so happened to be an executive board member of said regulator.
French Minister of Foreign Affairs, Laurent Fabius, visited Cellfish's New York HQ recently. He seemed very impressed with the business Fabrice Sergent, Julien Mitelberg and Nicolas d’Hueppe built. I wonder if he was aware of the fishy goings on with this fishy company?
Hello!
I’m Inès from KKO mobile Customer Care service. Just want to give some explanations to all users. It is always better to understand a situation than believing in conspiracy theories.
The KKO Mobile store offers a selection of games, applications, videos, music, and ringtones for your smartphone. KKO provides a selection for all tastes and the possibility of legal downloads.
To subscribe to KKO Mobile consumers must initiate voluntary actions using their mobile handset, in this case by clicking three times:
1. on our mobile advert
2. on our landing page with the weekly price
3. on the Payforit billing page, on which subscription and cost the service is once again outlined.
There is no possibility of subscribing to our service without these 3 positive actions being conducted by a user on his mobile handset. The owner is always deemed to control his handset.
Once the user has subscribed, he receives a free SMS containing the URL Link to access the service and, at the same time, information about the procedure to stop the subscription.
The service continues as long as the user does not send STOP. User then receives a SMS each month to remind him that the subscription is active plus, within the same message, again a description of how to unsubscribe.
You can unsubscribe from KKO Mobile at any time by simply sending the word STOP to 61973.
This feature works and has always been. We do regret that you give bad advises to users and to your sister: ignoring SMS messages instead of acting is not the solution.
Not ignoring these SMS messages and taking them into account is the behavior that common sense would consider to be wise. Staying passive and then reject the fault onto conspiracy theories is not.
Our customer care service is available Monday-Friday 9am-5pm, if you want to contact us please send an e-mail to [email protected] or phone 0845 834 1119, which is not a premium rate number.
Best regards
Inès
Posted by: Ines KKO Customer Care Service | 05/31/2013 at 04:08 PM
Hello Inès from KKO Mobile!
Thanks for your comment, which I've been kind enough to allow on my blog despite the insulting tone of voice. That's how nice I am. The irony of course being how you made both The Express newspaper and The Register take down my comments which mentioned you.
And that's no conspiracy theory. That's fact, as you well know.
Now, on to your points:
You claim there's absolutely no way someone could be subscribed to your service without following the three steps you mention. Yet a quick simple internet search brings up a mass load of folk who are in the same boat as my sister. And you can't provide (or are unwilling to provide) any proof that she, or anyone else, did so.
You claim it's foolish not to text STOP. Well, I text STOP when a similar thing happened to me in 2009. Guess what? The exact same company scammed me again a few months later. Both times PhonepayPlus adjudicated against said company. This proves that texting STOP when dealing with unscrupulous companies (such as yours) doesn't always work. In fact, it confirms the mobile number is functional. Which can lead to further scamming.
If you feel Payforit is infallible you may want to read this from the UK regulator, which was published recently: http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/For-Business/Code-and-Help/Code-Compliance-Updates/Statment-on-the-regulation-of-Payforit.aspx
Oh, and by the way, 0845 *is* a premium rate number. In that it costs more for all mobile users to ring than a true geographical number. And it's revenue sharing. As you well know, you guys get a cut of the cost of the call.
Speaking of money, you've still not refunded my sister. No surprise there!
Posted by: Ant | 06/01/2013 at 03:21 PM
Hiya, its @arniepalmer here - here's my two pennies worth and as yet, I have not received my refund either. I absolutely, definitely, wihtout a shadow of a doubt sign up for their service and I got billed around 50-60 qid, they have offered me a refund of £31.00 which I have accepted as I can't be bothered to get into an argument with Ines. What really p&sses me off is that they take your money immediately and then say they will send you a cheque, all they have ot do is refund it to the phone or send it to me via paypal, bacs or any other method. It is my honest opinion that this service is a con and if ofcom do nothing about it - it shows that ofcom should not exist - these companies and all telecoms companies have far too much money and it would not surprise me to see a few of our MP's as directors of many of them.
Posted by: Arniepalmer | 06/01/2013 at 03:39 PM
Hi Andrew. There's definitely something rotten about this whole industry. The mobile operators own Payforit and make, if I remember correctly, 50% of the revenue earned from such texts. Which, at the very least, gives them absolutely no incentive to help their customers or crack down on firms who scam them.
It's one of those times when I wish the EU would get involved. After all, they were able to enforce caps on the prices mobile companies could charge us customers when we roam.
As for Ofcom, they should definitely be on top of this. But, instead, they farmed out the duties to PhonepayPlus - who seem keener on promoting the industry rather than cracking down on the 'rogue' outfits.
Posted by: Ant | 06/01/2013 at 04:42 PM
This is an unbelievable situation. They conned me last year and this month they got my partner. Neither of us are stupid enough to sign up for KKOmobile's nonsense 'service'. There were definitely NOT 3 different screens of confirmation. That is just a lie. My best bet is they must have some sort of auto-complete bot that kicks in when you accidentally click on an ad. Lets face it, not many people would knowingly sign up £20 a month for stuff they dont need and can get for free if they did need it. The fact that these guys have gotten away with it for so long is amazing. No matter what you say Ines, you guys are slimey creeps. Total scum of the earth and if you all spent eternity sliding down razor blades using your testicles as brakes, if would be too good a fate.
Posted by: DontKKOme | 12/01/2013 at 10:23 PM
Hello .. I received ones of these texts this morning. I'm worried sick. Pkease tell me how to unprescribe from KKO? Thank you
Posted by: Shetha Ali | 01/23/2014 at 12:58 PM
Shetha, what was the content of the text? I'm assuming you didn't sign up for this "service" of theirs. If so, contact your mobile operator and let them know. Contact the industry regulator too. They're called (rather bizarrely) PhonepayPlus.
They'll both probably tell you to text 'STOP' back to the number even though they know KKO Mobile/MyDoo/Cellfish is a scam. But, if they get enough complaints, something might be done about them.
Posted by: Ant | 01/24/2014 at 01:30 PM
I too have been taken in by this total scam. I did not willingly sign up to it. I am told it could have been a banner that was accidentally clicked. I have a grand-daughter who loves to play with my phone in the car, she is 2 years old and knows exactly where to push to find my music and music videos and she loves them! It entertains her on car journeys and we love to hear her singing along and to be honest find it amazing how she can operate an iphone! So if to unwillingly subscribe to this scam all you have to do is click or press or swipe, no wonder thousands of people are being caught out and scammed. Have I learned from this, yes sadly my gorgeous grand-daughter will no longer be able to hold or play with my phone! Why don't KKO make it so you have to enter as in type in some information, why only a press or a swipe. Oh I know because then they wouldn't have any subscribers!! and wouldn't be conning so many people. Oh yes and I agreed with all the comments also about the network providers allowing this. They don't even send an email to their customers asking if they willingly signed up to these con artists, they just keep taking our money from us. The network providers could shut this down in an instant and look after us their loyal customers! but do they no. Missing a trick here guys - when I find the most honest network provider that does not do this and won't take money for me for additonal sums unless I have confirmed it with them I am voting with my feet and moving to them. For now I battle on trying to get th £234.00 back that was taken without me know. Yes £234.00!!! for a year I have been getting these charges, Vodaphone don't send me paper bills and guess what there has always been a problem with my online account. Vodaphone even have records of me calling to query my high bills, yet in all this time not once vodaphone employee told me I was having this strange thing called purchases on my bill. Finally I got through to an honest employee, she must have been a new one and not yet corrupt - she was as shocked as me and said her own son plays with her mobile, she could not believe it. Yet when I got put through to higher management, not interested, not their fault, couldn't do anything. Offered me £10.00 compensation. Thanks alot. Vodaphone bunch of cowboys, KKO bunch of cowboys, Mydoo bunch of cowboys. Anne Robinson please get your teeth into this lot and screw them to the floor. Lets have refunds with interest! please.
Posted by: Sara Paul | 09/26/2014 at 12:35 PM
Thanks for sharing your story Sara. That's an absolutely shocking sum of money to be fleeced out of. It should also be shocking that Vodafone allow this to continue happening and aren't doing anything to safeguard the people who've chosen to use their network. Sadly it isn't shocking, and sadly it isn't only Vodafone that fails to protect its customers - EE, O2 and Three are just as bad as one another.
As for your child, perhaps, accidentally subscribing to this - that might not even be the case. This scam has affected those who've not encountered any 'subscribe' ad banner in any game, app or web page. In short: This can happen simply by having a mobile phone number. The only way to avoid scams like this is by taking the drastic step of throwing your mobile phone away and going back to just a landline!
Posted by: Ant | 09/27/2014 at 02:07 PM
this has got to be illegal my husband recieved a text out the blue saying thanks for the subscription and to stop sent a text,, it didnt work just like everyone else, he was charged £4.50 for 3 weeks in a row,as he is vigilant realised when is bill came it that it was wrong... contacted virgin his mobile provider and they advised us it was cellfish he had subscribed to 100% untrue i insisted that we got a refund .. they refunded £7 however what we had to do was change his mobile number to stop this how bad is that .. to stop these thieves and rouges stealing our money.
Posted by: fee | 10/23/2014 at 06:05 PM
Unfortunately, Fee, I can assure you that what they're doing is perfectly legal. It beggars belief that what you, or I (or most reasonable people) would classify as fraud or theft *isn't* regarded as such in the mobile industry. This has been going on for years and will continue for years to come. And there's nothing any of us can do about it (short of ridding ourselves of mobile phones!)
Posted by: Ant | 10/23/2014 at 07:12 PM
I have just had the same problem happen to me I received a text on my mobile thanking me for agreeing to pay 4.50 a week and to send STOP in a text guess what it will not iet you send it . I spoke to my phone supplier which is virgin and they said they could not stop theses texts. my bill has just arrived with 3 weeks charges on after spending nearly an hour with yhe virgin operator she has given me phone pay plus to ring whose offices are closed till 9.30 am tomorrow i wonder what response i get ??
Posted by: m.a.stone | 02/02/2015 at 07:06 PM
Ant
You have obviously got some insight into this scam. What makes you say to Fee that what they are doing is perfectly legal?
My Company phone was targeted in mid-2014 and when it was discovered in December Vodafone had charged our account £112. My office was in touch with them (and the shadowy KKO via offshore call centre and mail addresses) but they were highly evasive, as all victims report. It was obvious that this racket will be perpetuated - there is never going to be a shortage of fraudsters - so long as the mobile companies provide a compliant platform.
I was told that neither party was prepared to refund the unauthorised charges. I therefore issued proceedings in the County Court, only against Vodafone as they and KKO refused to give an address for them to be joined as co-Defendants. As we closed in on a trial date Vodafone refused to disclose the relavant contract either with me or with KKO. This seems to me to put them in breach of contract; they can't claim I am bound by a contract that only they are privy to and which they will not disclose in my judgement.
So far one District Judge has disagreed and I shall now appeal to a Circuit Judge at the next level of the Civil Claims process. The lower Court Judge ruled, perversely I think, that Voadfone are squeaky clean and only the untouchable KKO are the villains.
What do you believe is the contract under which Vodafone debited my account?
It is entirely obvious that the mobile companies want to keep this scam alive as long as possible (and notably, before I got into Court last week, Vodafone had offered to give me the money back as long as I dropped the case without them admitting liability and I had received a cheque (with minimal covering letter and no address) from KKO. Do you know where I can find the evidence as to the deal between KKO and the mobile operators. i.e.
who gets what from the £4.50 pw charges and by what mechanism. I have asked Vodafone to produce the contracts but only to prove to the Court that they will not disclose them (of course they refused). Such evidence might help in the Appeal.
Posted by: Russell | 07/12/2015 at 12:30 PM
They have scammed me under the guise of mobidol.They owe me £90 and even tho promised me a refund 6 weeks later i am still waiting.??what baffles me is when you ring customer support to complain they have no contact details for their refund department??no phone no or email address???
Posted by: TONI IRVINE | 07/21/2015 at 09:06 AM
Russell, I'm no lawyer - nor am I in any way versed in these areas of law. What I probably should've said was that neither the regulators, nor the police, are interested in these kinds of scams and they don't appear to believe - or treat them - as if they are illegal.
As bad as things are in the UK, it's even worse in France where KKO are allowed to advertise on children's TV their dubious "services".
Posted by: Ant | 07/21/2015 at 02:00 PM
Dear Everyone,
I live in France and have been involved with a lengthy wrestling match with kko/mydoo/cellfish/lagardere to recover the full amount that I paid for two suspect subscriptions. The stages were many and in the beginning depressing and unfruitful, but having found many forums and blogs citing similar stories to mine, I was determined to carry on the fight. Gradually, the more positive emails from dear ol' Ines did arrive, first as pittance reimbursements, and finally after my contacting the French government agency which seems to know about the "scam" (arnaque in french), the latest email from her did claim that I would be receiving a bigger cheque next month.
As an interesting bit of info I discovered through my blog and forum research, Cellfish is a part of the Lagardere group, and Mr L is a bosom buddy "big brother" of Mr Sarkozy. Mmmhhhh......
Keep fighting for your rights. My question now is: How can these scams be effectively shut down by the respective government agencies? Media pressure to counter scams by leading media groups? Not likely.......
Posted by: Tom | 08/27/2015 at 02:23 PM